Politics is Stupid


#1622

Is this an actual thing or just metaphorical?
We do have our bigots here in New Zealand as well, but I like to think that as a whole we are fairly liberal. I will often see same-sex couples walking holding hands - often enough that I think it’s more that they are comfortable rather than militant. I think that depends where you go though. Small town NZ is still pretty conservative, but the bigger cities are more diverse.


#1623

We are having a similar problem on this side of the pond. I live in California, which produces the majority of the produce for the entire USA. A lot of these farms rely on immigrant labor. Now that 45 is rounding them all up we have crops rotting in the fields and produce is about to get more expensive. Our Republicans are similar to your Tories and a lot of our farmers vote for them as well (although probably not as much in California for the reason I mentioned above). I say this is the perfect time for Republican voters who keep complaining that immigrants are taking American jobs to come out to California’s Central Valley and pick fruits and veggies in 100 degree (about 38C) weather. Not gonna happen. No Americans want to do that and that’s why immigrants are doing it in the first place. The fact that said immigrants are brown and often don’t speak English should be irrelevant.


#1624

And a lot of the reason for that is they can pay them less than minimum wage. It’s not that Americans won’t do it, it’s that it’s harder to skirt the law. If they were hiring Americans to do it they’d have to offer health benefits, COBRA, unemployment insurance, disability, workers comp, and all that other crap, just to hire them for a month.

It’s not the immigrant part that’s important, it’s the fact that they won’t report the lower pay. (Or sometimes the pay is actually higher, but they don’t want to jump through a million hoops and would rather just pay in cash on the spot.)

If you don’t think immigrants aren’t taking entry level jobs from citizens then go to the fast food restaurants around here. What I find interesting is some of these places I’ve been going to for ages now, and some of the same people are working there in the same positions with the same lack of English, as opposed to a rotating crew of teenagers.

Why would anyone do it then? Nationalizing an industry doesn’t fix it, it just adds in a different set of problems. Just about every fully communist or socialist country deals with food shortages and farmers who just quit and walk away, or are driven away. What’s the difference between what you are suggesting and what Ook is complaining about?

I’d say you are looking for a basic income here, not a job seeking temporary check.

And yeah, Zero-Hour Contracts sound stupid as hell. Hey, you’ve got a job, maybe this week.


#1625

Farms should be coöperatives. We have a supermarket chain called the Co-Op (guess what that’s short for) and a majority their farms are coöperatives. They’re organised nationally by a governing body, sure, but compared to say a nationalised corporation they have literally no middle-management. You elect somebody from the local coöp to the national board if they have skills that would benefit it. It’s repeatedly awarded for how good a place it is to work, and they hire people full-time.

The only reason this model isn’t universal is because you don’t make stupid amounts of money from it.

Yes, very much so.

Since 2016, it is an actual thing, yes. Twelve people so far, mostly from classically homophobic/transphobic abusive sections of society (excessively poor and uneducated, excessively rich and ignorant, excessively religious, you know the drill).


#1626

I’ve been thinking about a basic income a lot lately. And I don’t see what keeps the people on it from just voting themselves more and more benefits.

Whatever the bottom number is I don’t see how it’s ever going to be enough. In the US they keep using metrics like raising a family in a 2 bedroom apartment as the comparison for minimum wage.

In addition, I don’t know why I owe someone else a living. Someone healthy, with the same opportunities and education as I have. What’s the point of even working if you make just 5k more than the basic allowance?

As far as farms go, farms should be whatever the owners of the farms want to make them. If you take their farms and, or force them to do it a different way, I’m not sure how free of a country you live in any more. What industry is next then?


#1627

This. So much this.


#1628

Cape of Good Hope has seceded (separated from SA).

Going to be interesting. Oh yes, Discworld Interesting Times interesting.

http://sovereignstateofgoodhope.org/


#1629

That article says that they did this last year. Are you looking at a civil war now?


#1630

Not a civil war. Just a big, legal mess. Seems those guys jumped the gun and went ahead contrary to all advice given.

Oh, and Interesting Times. I’m waiting for Rincewind et al to appear and do their stuff.


#1631

So another former White House employee has a book out, but this time, Omarosa Manigault Newman also has recordings of conversations she had with various people. Among them is the Chief of Staff telling her she’s being let go, using extremely vauge wording so that he doesn’t actually have to say words like “you’re being let go”. This was followed by the phone call she got from President Trump where he asks her what was going on and she responds that the decision was made that she had to leave.

Trump seemed genuinely surprised about it, so it didn’t sound like it was his decision. Chiefs of Staff handle this kind of task pretty frequently without Presidents needing to be involved. This sounds a bit different.

The recording where she was fired happened in the Situation Room (John F. Kennedy Conference Room), where personal electronics are not supposed to be brought in, but it’s on the honor system. She’s stated that the reason why she started making the recordings is that she felt she needed to have evidence to protect her reputation. I think she’s going to need it. The way President Trump is talking about her shows he’s trying to discredit one of his previously strongest supporters, and has a vindictive ring about it. Kind of like, “Oh, yeah, they’re a great person. Best in the world. Glad to have them aboard. They’re leaving? How dare they! They weren’t any good to begin with. They’re a loser.”


#1632

While I agree with you about her needing to take the recordings, I still don’t agree with her actually doing it. She’s a smart person, she must have known what she was letting herself in for.
As for Trump himself, I think it’s more childish than vindictive (though it is vindictive too). A classic example of his childishness was with Lebron James.
James: I’ll never sit down with the president because I believe he’s using sport to be divisive.
Trump: Yeah, well you’re stupid and the person who interviewed you is even more stupid.

While on the subject of Trump, I really wish the “fact checkers” would stop letting their personal biases affect their reporting. Just because they disagree with Trump’s conclusions does not mean that Trump is lying. A recent article I read said that Trump has lied multiple thousands of times since being in office - it worked out to around 8 times a day. I’m calling bull on that one. I don’t think it’s even possible to lie that many times a day.
I wouldn’t have such a problem with that if they applied the same standards to all political figures.
But they don’t.
All politicians lie, Trump is no exception. It would be nice though to actually and accurately know how much.


#1633

That quote from Thanos is starting to sound more and more relevant:

“The only matter I do not take seriously, boy, is you. Your politics bore me. Your demeanor is that of a pouty child.”


#1634

The Toronto Star actually calls them “false claims” as opposed to lying, because they say that they can’t be sure if his falsehoods are intentional or not. Daniel Dale, who (if my opinion counts for anything) is a well-respected reporter up here, keeps track of Trump’ false claims:


#1635

I’ve just read one of the pages with Trump’s false claims and I still think the author is letting his personal bias influence his writing. I suspect that the reason for calling them “false claims” instead of “lies” is because “false claim” is a very much broader category than “lie”.
I dislike Trump as much as anyone. Mostly as a person, but I think he’s a bad president as well. But there is no way I would claim that everything he does is bad, nor do I agree with a lot of what the author claims are false claims.

“Since Election Day, we’ve created – and this is hard to believe because nobody – the news back there – fake news – if I would have said this during the campaign, we’ve created 3.4 million new jobs, since Election Day, 3.4. If I would have said that during the campaign prior to the election without the numbers they would have said you have to be kidding.”

in fact: It is not true that the media would have accused him of exaggerating if he said 3.4 million jobs would be created over this period (November 2018 through May 2018). That is a 19-month period. The number of jobs created over the previous 19 months, under Obama, was 4.1 million.

It’s an enormous stretch to call this a false claim. A lot of the media probably would have called him out if he had made this claim prior to the election. Whether for exaggeration, disbelieving that his policies could help gain jobs, or even just that the job gains were because of Obama’s policies, he would have been called out.
There are a lot of other nonsense claims in the list as well. Some of them Trump exaggerates for effect, I’d hesitate to call them false claims as well. Trump waffles a lot, some of it is a bit stream of consciousness stuff and analysing every word for “false claims” does nobody any good. Call out the stuff that is an actual lie - saying in an interview that Theresa May is useless and then the next day claiming he didn’t say that. That’s a lie, call that out. As it is, the more egregious stuff gets lost in the nonsense - I only got a quarter of the way through the list and then gave up and dismissed the author as too biased.


#1636

Circular reasoning. If she hadn’t taken the recordings and betrayed her employer she wouldn’t need to defend herself. I think she has done irreparable damage to the trust in the White House for this administration and any others afterward. She broke an NDA, she broke protocol, and if anything else was discussed while she was taping on a personal device she easily broke national security guidelines. How many presidents have had so many betrayals by the administration as Trump, for no real reason.

Unless she recorded, or knew about, actual treason, as opposed to snippy attitudes, then I have no idea why she was recording anything except to write a book and ride the wave.

Omarosa was a supporter of Democrat/Liberal Trump, she was his business friend. Once he came out as a Republican I have no doubt that she soured right away. There was no reason to hire her into that position in the first place, and many people questioned the decision, and what she was even doing there.

Fire and Fury, A Higher Loyalty, and now Unhinged, all books written by people fired for incompetence and or disloyalty to their employer, or even failure to follow instructions. And they are supposed to be some sort of unbiased report?

I don’t like Trump, but I didn’t vote for a best friend, I voted for Not_Hillary. And next election it looks like I’ll be voting for Not_Democratic_Socialist.

And I’ve mentioned many times to my friends that there is so much crazy shit out there flying around about Trump that’s simply false, or irrelevant, that the real errors don’t even make an impact as events. And the successes get blown out of proportion simply because they aren’t being covered. Hey, it’s arguable to say we just won a trade war with the EU, but since no one even wants to talk about it at all on the left then it stands as a win totally brought on by Trump’s twitter account.

Trump is acting like a child for two reasons here, 1) I think he’s genuinely shocked and hurt, and 2) He’s a direct and simple communicator. He shouldn’t have been #1, and #2 is what he’s been for 40 years.


#1637

Hoo boy - seems Expropriation Without Compensation (hereafter referred to as EWC) is starting slowly here in SA. Already a couple of farms have been earmarked.

We still have to see what the banks will tell the government about that, especially if the govt want to take hundreds, if not, thousands of people’s properties back without compensation - and what about those outstanding bonds on those places…

Still think it is an erectionelection ploy, just to get people to vote for them. Once a sucker, always a sucker for false promises. Gah.

I still think EWC is one of the most stupidest ideas ever conceived. Who’ll want to invest in a country where there’s no guarantees about land ownership?


#1638

I wonder if Cohen sees the irony here:


#1639

It sounds like this is getting worse. Is it getting rough in the streets or just out in the boonies?

Especially since he’s turned and a pardon is the last thing he’ll see this side of the next Democrat President.

I tell you, what is getting me is how the framing of all these people’s character, from Comey to Cohen, to Manafort, to Strock, whoever; is purely based on what affect what they last said has on the politics of the person talking about them.

I swear back in the 80’s there was almost as much infighting, but it was between equals. Now the first step is to dehumanize so anything will stick, but then rehabilitate the next week when they say/do something they like.


#1640

Does anyone else her think that turning the Mollie Tibbets murder into an argument for anti-immigration is messed up?

This particular murder may have been prevented by keeping this particular person out of the country, but unfortunately, men murdering women is nothing new. From what I’ve read, it sounds like he started to follow her and harassed her enough that she threatened to call the police. I don’t know a single woman who hasn’t had something like that happen (minus the murder part) at least once in their life. The men usually get angry if the woman tells them to go away or otherwise says “no” to them as well. The problem is with men who have been raised to think that women owe them respect, sex, or whatnot, not with illegal immigrants.

/end rant


#1641

Yes, but it also doesn’t surprise me. That’s pretty much the Republicans’ MO these days.