Politics is Stupid


Is this an actual thing or just metaphorical?
We do have our bigots here in New Zealand as well, but I like to think that as a whole we are fairly liberal. I will often see same-sex couples walking holding hands - often enough that I think it’s more that they are comfortable rather than militant. I think that depends where you go though. Small town NZ is still pretty conservative, but the bigger cities are more diverse.


We are having a similar problem on this side of the pond. I live in California, which produces the majority of the produce for the entire USA. A lot of these farms rely on immigrant labor. Now that 45 is rounding them all up we have crops rotting in the fields and produce is about to get more expensive. Our Republicans are similar to your Tories and a lot of our farmers vote for them as well (although probably not as much in California for the reason I mentioned above). I say this is the perfect time for Republican voters who keep complaining that immigrants are taking American jobs to come out to California’s Central Valley and pick fruits and veggies in 100 degree (about 38C) weather. Not gonna happen. No Americans want to do that and that’s why immigrants are doing it in the first place. The fact that said immigrants are brown and often don’t speak English should be irrelevant.


And a lot of the reason for that is they can pay them less than minimum wage. It’s not that Americans won’t do it, it’s that it’s harder to skirt the law. If they were hiring Americans to do it they’d have to offer health benefits, COBRA, unemployment insurance, disability, workers comp, and all that other crap, just to hire them for a month.

It’s not the immigrant part that’s important, it’s the fact that they won’t report the lower pay. (Or sometimes the pay is actually higher, but they don’t want to jump through a million hoops and would rather just pay in cash on the spot.)

If you don’t think immigrants aren’t taking entry level jobs from citizens then go to the fast food restaurants around here. What I find interesting is some of these places I’ve been going to for ages now, and some of the same people are working there in the same positions with the same lack of English, as opposed to a rotating crew of teenagers.

Why would anyone do it then? Nationalizing an industry doesn’t fix it, it just adds in a different set of problems. Just about every fully communist or socialist country deals with food shortages and farmers who just quit and walk away, or are driven away. What’s the difference between what you are suggesting and what Ook is complaining about?

I’d say you are looking for a basic income here, not a job seeking temporary check.

And yeah, Zero-Hour Contracts sound stupid as hell. Hey, you’ve got a job, maybe this week.


Farms should be coöperatives. We have a supermarket chain called the Co-Op (guess what that’s short for) and a majority their farms are coöperatives. They’re organised nationally by a governing body, sure, but compared to say a nationalised corporation they have literally no middle-management. You elect somebody from the local coöp to the national board if they have skills that would benefit it. It’s repeatedly awarded for how good a place it is to work, and they hire people full-time.

The only reason this model isn’t universal is because you don’t make stupid amounts of money from it.

Yes, very much so.

Since 2016, it is an actual thing, yes. Twelve people so far, mostly from classically homophobic/transphobic abusive sections of society (excessively poor and uneducated, excessively rich and ignorant, excessively religious, you know the drill).


I’ve been thinking about a basic income a lot lately. And I don’t see what keeps the people on it from just voting themselves more and more benefits.

Whatever the bottom number is I don’t see how it’s ever going to be enough. In the US they keep using metrics like raising a family in a 2 bedroom apartment as the comparison for minimum wage.

In addition, I don’t know why I owe someone else a living. Someone healthy, with the same opportunities and education as I have. What’s the point of even working if you make just 5k more than the basic allowance?

As far as farms go, farms should be whatever the owners of the farms want to make them. If you take their farms and, or force them to do it a different way, I’m not sure how free of a country you live in any more. What industry is next then?


This. So much this.