Another Gun Free Zone that isn't

Another shooting at another gun free zone.

At some point Congress is going to get off their asses and mandate that the “No Guns Allowed” signs be big enough to use as both personal protection devices and weapons.

Apparently at least a couple of the injured/dead were police/security so we’re not talking about your average suicide shooter. I wonder if it’s another workplace violence attack by a Jihadist?

Seriously though, prayers for the living and survivors, thoughts for the dead. We need to put real security on the things we value. Maybe the heart of the Navy should be guarded by real security people with real weapons, and not rely on the BATFEIEIO to protect them.

Good vibes to the folks there.

But yeah, too many crunchy targets in the .mil.

Ok, two things about this asshole jump out at me.

One, he’s batshit crazy. Which, thanks to a ton of laws preventing discrimination doesn’t prevent a secure facility from hiring him apparently. Has trouble distinguishing reality from fantasy and hears voices in his head seem a couple warning signs that maybe this guy should be put on the “can’t buy guns” list.

Two, if the gun laws on the books right now had been applied to this man then this would not have happened. Twice this dude was arrested for firearms violations and neither time was he actually prosecuted. I’m sorry, shooting someone’s tires out and claiming you rage-blacked out and don’t remember what happened should get you on the do not sell to list, along with shooting holes in your ceiling at the apartment above. A guilty verdict in either of those would have ended this mans ability to buy a firearm.

As far as the location. Apparently there are Marines there, but they don’t get bullets, though frankly I would have thought they would have been barking to go anyway, that’s how we would have run it in the Army.

He came in with a shotgun. I’m hoping there is some footage on that. If a man walks into a secure area with a shotgun you shot him. Hopefully he was hiding it somehow or shot too quick for the guard to react. I dunno.

Work (on base) is the only place I don’t carry. Because I can’t. It amazes me that years after Fort Hood, we still pretend that the bases are magically protected from violence.

1 Like

It amazes me that there are reporters out there that think a military base like this one or even Ft. Hood are just crawling with people carrying guns, with ammunition. Hell, even on sensitive guard duty the best I ever had was an axe handle, to guard ammunition convoys we all drew M16s but only the SGT in charge drew ammo, 5 rounds, in his cargo pocket in his pants, but at least he was allowed to put them in a magazine.

Ft. Hood is a painful memory for me. One of the victims of the massacre down there, Amy Krueger, used to live a couple of houses away from me. :frowning:

Ft. Hood again…

Seriously, can we let soldiers carry weapons again? Mr. Clinton appears to have been mistaken when he authorized disarming military bases.

Just popping in to say that without really, really clear context, this phrase is the epitome of “say whaaaaaaaa?”

Just to pop in here, but he wasn’t responsible for that. It happened due to a DODD change in February 1992 (before President Clinton was elected, still under President G.H.W. Bush) which resulted in a US Army (only) regulation change in March 1993. Additionally, that regulation change doesn’t “disarm” the bases, but instead restricts normal, day-to-day carrying to security/law enforcement personnel and personnel in locations where there is a reasonable threat. As a result, no, most States-side bases are not considered to have an expected threat level that carrying would mitigate.

No presidential involvement at all, from either President.

That said, i’d have felt so much better if i’d was allowed to carry on post. i was basically around the corner from the Maj Hasan incident (he was at the SRP site, I was in a class at the BSC), and i still can’t believe that personnel willing to go get their CHL-equivalent aren’t allowed to carry on post. Blows my mind.

If I knew there was a damn threat there, I wouldn’t go! Or I’d go in fireteams with overwatch.

I had thought it was a presidential action that did that. Welp, there is my new thing for today.

So is it that DODD change that prevents concealed carry by non enforcement personnel? I knew when I was in in 92-95, it just wasn’t really practical to have your own gun, unless you were really into it. Had to check it at the armory, log it out from the armorer, who may or may not be there, and guys with guns that shot .223 tended to get shaken down at ammo turn ins.

If I live in Arizona, with constitutional carry, and I’m in the military in off post housing, I can carry anywhere I want to any way I want to, but as soon as I step foot on a military base, I’m in shit city? Or because I’m in the military I can’t carry anywhere? Hell, can you carry concealed in uniform? Legally, not practically I mean.

Work (on base) is the only place I don’t carry. And by extension, on the way to and from work (which is a 40-minute drive and might involve grocery, gas stops, etc.). As a practical matter, if I’m going to stop by home to gear up, I’m going to get out of my cammo pajamas, so carrying in uniform per se has never really been an issue.

Basically, unless you are an MP, you can’t be armed on post. Joint Base Lewis McChord (or Fort Lewis to the rest of the planet) has fairly “liberal” rules. If you live on post, you can keep your personal arms in your own home; you used to have to store them in the unit armory, and most posts are still like this, I believe. You do have to register them with the post provost marshal. If you want to shoot them, you can either take them to a civ range or at the one outdoor range on post where that’s allowed (during posted hours only)–no stops for any reason once you bring a weapon into your automobile until you either get back home or off post.

I know that some sailors and marines at Naval Base Kitsap (a.k.a. SUBASE Bangor and PSNS) keep their personal arms in a storage unit “armory” rented with their buddies, since they can’t keep them on base.

I don’t think we’re likely to see any loosening of the restrictions. No commander ever got in trouble for keeping Joe on a tighter leash. I’d love to be able to carry concealed in the office without losing rank; I’d happily settle for being able to keep it secured in a lockbox in my car during the duty day.

It should be noted, too, that in the interests of “enhanced safety,” the gates at Fort Lewis are going to an automated card reader/gate thingy; the idea is to remove most of the live gate guards once the system is fully spun up. How this is supposed to make anyone safer is left unstated.

I would never willingly live on post. They can’t keep you safe, and they won’t give you the liberty to take responsibility for your own safety.

1 Like

By “locations where there is a reasonable threat” i believe they mean places like Camp Taji, or KAB. Although the regulation change i mentioned was an Army-specific reg, other services already had restrictions as a result of the DoDD change. Camp LeJeune and its satellites (MCAS New River, Camp Johnson, Camp Geiger, Stone Bay, etc) had the same “check it in the armoury” rule that @sig mentioned when i was on New River. This did limit the practicality of carrying to and from work, but since Marines effectively can’t stop anywhere in uniform anyway, it doesn’t affect them quite as directly. Marine bases used to be harder to get on to though, compared to the Army’s “anyone anytime” access policy. i don’t know if this is still true, but it was when i was there.

About half the time I was on Schofield Barracks we were on “lockdown” or sealed. This meant MPs at the gates checking car tags (Which sucked since I never had a car with a tag), and individuals for ID… except the public transit buses which just rolled right onto post. I never did understand that.

Of course, for a year we were like that because we were finding pipe bombs around the post, which turned out to be planted by an MP.

Rogue MP, or one assigned to strengthen base defenses?

Dissatisfied MP armorer. Mad at his wife or some shit. If I remember correctly the first few weren’t supposed to go off, then the rest were supposed to catch EOD people. Only one went off aha all and it went off before anyone found it.

I do remember how pissed the MPs were when we blew up a two liter with an MRE heater.

National Guard Readiness NCO gunned down at the armory:

LOBELVILLE, Tenn. - A 15-year-old boy has been charged in the fatal shooting of a sergeant at the Tennessee Army National Guard armory in Perry County late Wednesday afternoon.

Authorities said the teen, Christopher Farrar, gained entry to the armory around 4:30 p.m. located at Highway 13 and Highway 438 in Lobelville, about 75 miles west of Nashville.

The victim, identified as 45-year-old Sgt. 1st Class Michael Braden, suffered a gunshot wound to the chest after Farrar fired several shots. He died a short time later at Perry County Medical Center.

Authorities took Farrar into custody without incident at his relative’s home around 9 p.m. Wednesday night.

For the unaware, the Nasty Guard calls all of our various outposts “armories.” There may or may not have been actual weapons stored in a vault there, but it doesn’t matter; no ammunition would be stored there, and none of us are allowed to be armed.

I was a Readiness NCO for two hellish years, doing all of the admin, pay, orders, and everything else the “other” 28 days per month for my company. The armory exterior door was locked, but a lot of people had legitimate business there and it was not difficult to get someone to let you in.

Our armory was largely vacant M-F… anyone could wander in through either set of doors. The individual offices and arms rooms/ supply rooms were locked unless occupied, but as you said - no weapons for war fighters in their own home.

My armory was also Division Headquarters, but access was pretty simple. Walk through the open doors. We had a little corner, there was no hiding though. Trying to do anything sucked ass, half the time there were more officers wandering around than enlisted.

The advantage/disadvantage in this scenario here is A: lots of people there all the time, B: lots of strangers there all the time.

I would imagine being a readiness NCO in some of the small town armories here in Indiana, I would likely be packing, who would rat me? There are an awful lot of Company sized infantry ones around here.

That’s my daughter.

If you are going to die, die facing the asshole. She’s also mentioned stripping naked and running at him screaming if she doesn’t have anything to throw.

2 Likes